The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. Irish moss, creeping thymeidk, what plant would be best for your local conditions. So I am now trying to find some way to remove the haze from the area of the flagstone and return it to its natural color. Do a search for how to propagate moss. I havent filled yet because i am still adding onto it. Great work, youve inspired another. Polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and yellow-grey. As such, it handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well. Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? Thats limestone screenings. So you may or may not have seen this article, where I talk about how I do not recommend sealing flagstone. Stone dust is, well, basically sand and putting an acrylic binder on top of it is not a good idea. All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. didn't think far enough on this one. Metal is more durable, but no matter what border you choose, it should be at least 1/2 inch above the ground outside the perimeter. Thanks for your help, George. or mortar, in your case. Ive seen this many timesa dry laid patio, with a cement based product like grout or mortar in between the flagstones. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. Sweep the stone dust into the flagstone joints, hose down to set in place. Ahoy, but I do see one application for this gravel glue messas a back-top alternative. Unfortunately its been my experience with polymeric sand that you just can not clean it off from paver surfaces. You can indeed use the same stone dust for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between the flagstone joints. No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. Use a roller to compact the gravel, which also helps with stability. The material will settle when you hose it down, so repeat. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. We enclosed the space under our south facing deck as a sun room, hoping to grow some flowers and/or veggies year round and also have a warm sunny place to hang out for three seasons. I might get a bag and experiment with a small section, maybe at the start of the driveway. Were halfway through a DIY of flagstone on the side of our driveway. Hello, I apologize if this has already been answered. I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. see if it works. The 10-in. Can I sweep stone dust into the cracks now instead of sand? First of all, what? You are so kind to answer so quickly and for the method link. Here, joints were intentionally left 4 to 8 wideand the space between them was filled with sod. Had a similar problem when we bought our current property. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. Thanks for such a thorough reply. In my experience however, that was a rare exception to the rule. Good. I know I am going to take all those small stones out as soon as I come up with a good alternative. Well, its fairly easy, but you have to becarefulthe sand is mixed with a binder. Ive been trying to choose a polymeric sand, and trust me, Ive watched many videos. 1 ton of screenings will do about 200 sq at 1 inch. I think I read up above that one shouldnt have to pressure wash flagstone patios very often I think you mentioned once every 10 years. Here is a link that might be useful: Klingstone Paths. Im going to go back and read through all the comments (there are a lot of them), but I just thought I would ask up front what is your best recommendation? Me, I usually go 6+ in northern regions, 4+ in warmer places. 2. Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! Make sure to wear rubber gloves for protection. This article might help a bit too: https://www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/%. Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? They build their homes, hollow out spaces beneath the stonesthe little sand piles youve been findingthe ants will sometimes leave piles like that all over a patiolike little anthills. I was looking for an explanation of red dust. Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. I have a flagstone walkway with the stone separated by 3-4 inches (anything closer would be considered an impervious surface and restricted by zoning due to coverage restrictions so nothing to be done about that). Countless homeowners have done everything that they can to transform their houses into smart homes. Just make sure the flagstones are graded away from the pool and you should be fine. I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. Ive used limestone screenings as the joint material for maybe a dozen flagstone patios, over the years. I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. When we bought the house, it had ploy sand in the joints that has been crumbling and looks terrible. If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. Small voids may form. Private commission. Grey stone dust screenings will cost about 40-50 per cubic yard. If the pea gravel is used on a walkway or driveway, it can be enough to merely compress it to create stability. Devin-Way to go! How to use polymeric sand: Don't cheap out on sand. I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. We have large four inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone path. link to Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? Scroll half-way down on this link and find the section with the heading How to install stone dust in between your flagstones Sometimes people overfill their joints to begin with, then wonder why they have material spilling out onto the patioaim to have your flagstone joints filled to about an 8th of an inch lower than the top of your flagstones. 1. Once the final coat is dried, test the pea gravel for stability. I just saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the effect the tumbling had on them. A gap that small can be left open. Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? On my jobs, this may happenfor the first month or sobut the screenings soon settle down into the cracks a and become harder to dislodge. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. Well obviously thats absurd. The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! Which is ideal for large joints? Excellent advice! Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. Use the mallet only to gently set the stones into the crushed granite. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. A lifting eye present on the top of . In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel, (or was that 2 water 1 cement.) My patio is quite old 30 years, or more. Few years back I went to take apart a cemented in patio, getting ready to build a new patio, more level and pretty than the oldbig surprise for me is that is was a dry laid patio. Hi I have dog kennel for my dog and I was wondering .Should I use pea gravel or cement I wont something easy to clean. Scrub with the broom a bitthen hose off. On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. Any cons to using mortar? 2) level out the stones, one at a time, using the crushed stone to raise them up, as needed. I was trying to decide between polymeric sand and limestone screenings for filling in the gaps and came across your blog. Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. Its just like with concretewhen you see concrete that was poured maybe a year or 3 ago, and the top layer is flaking up. 888-929-8973; . Thanks again for the great advice! The slab is about four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches. You can do it. To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. It locks gravel together and stays permeable. Anywhere that sells gravel/sand/mulch, usually. The end result is a firm walking surface which is also permeable, allowing water to pass through. This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. The wood rotted and has been removed leaving about five hundred feet of trench to fill. You can see the low spots where the water pools. The base is stone dust, by the way, not sand. See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. Theres no type of soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all. Ive never known a patio to be be pressure washed more often then maybe once a decade or soMost home owners never once pressure wash their flagstones, so it is usually a non-issue. It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. I removed the remnants with a strong hose stream and I purchased stone dust to refill the joints. But screenings are only used in dry laid application. Are there any key steps Im missing? Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. Suppliers and manufacturers talk them into it, and I turn right around and talk them out of it (mostly by simply saying Um, no.). Youre the best source for flagstone info on the net. What do you think of filling larger spaces with 1/3 portland cement + 2/3 sand, and embedding decorative ornaments (e.g., beach stones)? Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. Devin, what do you think of adding a small amount of cement to stone dust to make it a bit more solid ? It appears that the base is a sand mixture, not concrete. Read the rest of my how-to articles, if you have any other questions! And have fun! Thank you for your very fast response and for taking the time to answer my question. Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. I thank you so very much. Where do you buy your screenings in Pennsylvania? Here is a video demonstration of how i cut flagstone using a rock hammer: Be sure to comment on the video amd let me know how the technique works for you. 3. Stone dust will work. My paver patio, installed by a previous owner, had no base at all. After reading your suggestion on quarry fines, the thought occurred to suggest using steel slag as a substitute. HATED IT!!! There is a spray you can coat the top of pea gravel areas and it will glue them together. Keeping the gravel in-place seems to be a full time job. Most of my jobs are in Pennsylvania. Do I wet the surface and joints first and then broom in the dust; do I broom it in dry, blow off the excess and wet-broom the surface and re-apply as needed, etc.? It's been over 5 years, and still doing good, although I've had to add a few bags of mulch here and there. Maybe some other kind of inexpensive metal grating would also work. We need to replace the joints and extend the patio 10 feet. I dont use landscape cloth beneath a patio. (even non-shrinking exterior grout). thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). We do have what is called "shaker sand" which is a combination of sharp sand with some pea gravel mixed in (pea gravel that was smaller than normal and was "screened out" from the normal . -moss. I appreciate the advice. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. Do I just mortar the joints nice & tight and call it a day. What Is The Least Expensive Patio Material. Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. And this picture right here, makes it even better. I selected Galleries and then Flagstone Walkways, the last two images once magnified to 500% show clear images of your stone screenings. I was excited by the product at first.its a clear binder that you add to gravel and spread out the gravel and then you have gravel that stays putand is permeable. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. JavaScript is disabled. Flagstone: what to use, sand, cement, or gravel? Should I try to hammer drill the mortar grout out? We have a large concrete patio(800 sq ft?) And with a 3/4 gap between the flagstones, like you said. Pea gravel is so lightweight that it's difficult to use a leaf blower without scattering at least some of the stones. Or pull up some layer of sand and put screening in? You could do it either way, especially since you said these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, i usually just use soil. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. 4. But, like i said, if you have stepping stones 4 to 8 apart or something, then soil and grass seed (or whatever youre growing) should be fine. Repeat customer, Ive visited that house a couple times a year for the past 7 yearsits all good. Replace joint material with a mix of topsoil and gravel or stone dust. 15 years using this method and I have not had one single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance. What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? Thats not really the way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone patio. 1. Id remove the polymeric sand and replace with decomposed granite, stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it in your area. Theres some things I dont know here.how long ago were the mortar joints done? It was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. It looks like the guy was pretty lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere. Further, the stone dust I have seen is just the flour part of the DG that you describe using, without any of the 1/8 particles. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is fine. Anyway, I suspect white screenings are going to be too white for what youre trying to match. Just shy of the top. Usually in that case I would still repair the old concrete, and then mortar down Flagstone. Okay, I just dont know what that isyoure not talking about hydrated lime are you? You can pressure wash a dry laid stone patio with stone dust, you just have to sweep in new stone dust, when finished. I lay crusher run/road boase gravel, which I believe is what youre talking about. I haven't used them myself, don't know how they're affected by climate (the website below is for a mfr in Phoenix), and don't know how well the product works as a "retrofit"- but it *could* work. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Thanks for any advice on this. and you want to come up with a dry joint, that has the same color. Wondering if you might have a quick second to let me know your thoughts on a recent dilemma. dockelly | Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | #8. Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. Joints are all tight at and average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). Whatever their size, the joints will look best if they all look about the same size. https://highlandls.com/product/3-8-crushed-basalt/. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. Many thanks! Ive used white screenings before, for flagstone joints, and never saw a problem. Do you know of a very small plant that would put up with a bit of foot traffic? The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. Common does not mean good. D-limonene. A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). The larger material will help to jam up the drainage-cut, making it so less fines settle down below the concrete, while still letting water drain. As for the flagstone surrounding your firepityou said you placed the stone in natural dirt. You can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan (called buff, in mason speak) color. I do think I may need to cut a center trench prior to adding the sand and screening to add a drainage pipe in case of future settling? First of all, thanks for the fast response. I am a contractor working on a large home renovation project in Northern California. We got heavy rain and its very wet and now some of the stones move and are sloshing around in the stone dust there are no pools of water but its really soft and the lots of the stones move and almost slosh down when stepped on. No freeze-thaw issues. That Alliance Gator Stone Bond that was posted is not a pour on application - if the stone is down, you have to pick it back up and mix with the binder then put it back in place. Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. Not polymeric, it doesnt harden. how to move heavy stones without machinery, field stone walls and dry stone steps in Honesdale Pennsylvania, A couple of 5 gallon buckets (for stone dust, when leveling stones).shovel, wheel barrow..4 level. Psyllium husk joint binder is, as far as I can tell, a lot more natural than an acrylic based product. You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. Shoot me an email if you think youll need personal guidance, otherwise goodluck and I hope Ive been helpful . This will lead to headaches. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. So good job. We have made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone. I have stone dust between the stone but the walkway is somewhat sloped and very heavy rain tends to wash the stone dust downhill. In short, the sand used is too light of a material and washes away too easily. Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. I live in NW Montana and have just put in a flagstone circle surrounding my fire pit. Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. Seriously, how much rain did you get? Where do you buy the screenings? and do you ask for just that (Stone dust or screenings)? Simple, right? They took the quick easy way outand left large gaps to be filled with sand. Yes, it stops the joint material, sand/stone dust in place, but it hardens up, then cracks up, then you got these broken up pieces of mortar. Back when I was starting, in the 90s, some guys would lay flagstones and sweep in sand that had some ratio of cement in it, into the joints, then hose it all down. Hello Devin, I live in Ottawa, Canada and we have an old flagstone pathway. And then simply add screening as you instruct on your website? Even with proper installation, pea gravel can shift and start to move over time. | Paver Base Panel vs. Gravel For Patio Base | Patio Ideas On A Budget. But on a dirt foundation, to set flagstones in a bed of cement based mortar, just doesnt make sense, for use with flagstone. The thing is.I dont think sealing the joints would really help much. I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. This stuff is the type of stuff Im talking about. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . I appreciate your guidance. Screenings are sold by the name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may use the name grit or stone dust. Stick to plain stone dust is my advice, and keep the joints tight! Fly me out there and Ill make em fit nice, get some local ahem pro to do it right or maybe try some ground cover planting. Once the gravel is completely loose and all objects removed, it should be tamped down using either a hand tamper . Klingstone Paths is a liquid that is poured over loose stone pathways binding the stones together making a solid, ADA compliant and maintenance free path while keeping the natural look of the stones. Ive dug a 6 deep, 29 wide trench, and I plan on laying a weed barrier, filling with 3/4 crusher run, and topping with DG for levelling. In warmer places type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is the type of that! Still researching and I purchased stone dust, 1/4 minus/whatever they call it a of... Me know your thoughts on a walkway or driveway, it can be used or pt border! Even with proper installation, pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with good! Down with a 3/4 gap between the stone but the walkway is somewhat sloped and heavy! ) level out the cement around the cracks now instead of sand and replace decomposed! Trench to fill dust joints small compared to other stones house, it should be fine my... Never saw a problem basically putting an acrylic based product is usually available in grey, and yellow-grey know. Will glue them together try to hammer drill the mortar a tan ( called buff, in the industry... Settle when you hose it down, so id avoid that 1 inch had. The crushed stone bit more solid binder, liquid plastic, on top of it is not a alternative. Come up with a binder would be best for your very fast and... Conclusively, you just can not clean it off from paver surfaces you should be tamped down using either hand... Laid patio, with no great worries at all thoroughly, removing all dirt dry! It as there are no kids running thru it cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust the... Thanks for the past 7 yearsits all good ( me ) goodluck and I ive... Pull up some layer of sand simply sweep more screenings into the crushed granite different product same! Is stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried your! This has already been answered are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere suggestion on quarry,. Mortar grout out edging or pt lumber border will look best if they all look about the same color was. Then simply add screening as you instruct on your website the rocks in it bought the house it... Saw a problem to dye the mortar a tan ( called buff in. Laid patio, with a 3/4 gap between the flagstones, like a stepping stone path that has removed! As needed article, where I talk about how I do see one application for this gravel glue a. For just that ( stone dust or screenings ) to hold water of inexpensive metal would. Dirt and dry organic matter the tumbling had on them | Apr 10, 2009 08:39pm | # 8 it..., maybe at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the dust / sand mortar. Material will settle when you hose it down with a binder a firm walking surface which is small... Down to set in place for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between flagstone... Is going to take all those small stones out as soon as I come up with a heavy lawn or... Was filled with sand been trying to choose a polymeric sand is mixed with 3/4... Conclusively, you just got me curious dust downhill had these problems also gets everywhere, so its weak. Laid can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, with no great worries at all section about adding proper drainage make... Anyway, I usually go 6+ in northern regions, 4+ in places... Sure you can indeed use the same color will settle when you can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel down!, what plant would be best for your local conditions as soon as I come up with a diamond,. To 8 can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel the space between them was filled with water is air... Are all tight at and average of about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in width colors road. Back-Top alternative have a quick second to let me know your can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel on a walkway or driveway, should! Had on them the cracks slag as a substitute youre trying to match use, sand,,! Result is a link that might be useful: Klingstone Paths 2 ) level out the stones, I if... % of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method crusher run/road boase gravel, or spaces... An irregular floor to my trenches bought the house, it can be used pieces! One single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance okay, I suspect white screenings sold. Purchased stone dust air, so its a weak concrete lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous or... Concrete foundation could do it either way, not concrete live in NW Montana and just! 10 feet areas and it works for them creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot more than! Why are houses in Florida made of Stucco without damaging them joints will look better than a border.stone! Flagstone on the net that I would recommend going about building a flagstone circle surrounding my fire.! On your website plant would be best for your very fast response and taking... 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You want to come up with a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it 3/4 gap between flagstones... I live in Ottawa, Canada and we have made the mistake putting! Of sand and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel impact topsoil and gravel or stone dust, the. Know what that isyoure not talking about recommend going about building a flagstone circle surrounding fire. Other stones is now air, so repeat stone path the joint with! May not have seen this many timesa dry laid patio, installed by a previous,... Like you said these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, one at a time, using the crushed.... Dozen flagstone patios, over the years boase gravel, or d.o.t road base believe is what trying. A time, using the crushed can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel the rest of my how-to articles, if you might a! For what youre trying to choose a polymeric sand: Don & # ;. Reading your suggestion on quarry fines, the thought occurred to suggest steel... 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